Factoid: Bay vs Manny

Posted by Ted McEnroe July 31, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Since Opening Day 2006:

Jason Bay – 78 HR, 257 RBI, 22 SB, 251 runs, .271 BA
Manny – 75 HR, 258 RBI, 1 SB, 229 runs, .305 BA

Doesn’t look so bad…

Collins: Many reasons for Bay-for-Manny

Posted by Chris Collins July 31, 2008 at 5:36 pm

Addition by subtraction. Grabbing a guy so your rivals can’t get him. There’s a lot more to the Jason Bay trade than just stats. Chris Collins breaks it down.

Best of a bad situation…

Posted by Ted McEnroe July 31, 2008 at 5:27 pm

Sometimes, it’s addition by subtraction.

If you had said to Boston fans at the All-Star break that the Red Sox would be shipping Manny Ramirez out of town at the trade deadline, people would have thought you were nuts. We had Teixeira, Holliday and Bay in the rumors, but for prospects, not Hall-of-Famers.

But Manny forced management’s hand, and today the Sox gave up a guy who gave up on them this week.

That said – JASON BAY WILL BE A BIG CONTRIBUTOR FOR THE SOX. He has two more homers than Manny so far this year, turning in a .282-22-64-7 line for the Pirates. And 64 RBIs in Pittsburgh is a heck of a lot harder than 68 RBIs in Boston.

He’s a decent leftfielder, with a mediocre arm, but he has his head on straight, and because of that, he doesn’t make a ton of errors/ At the plate, he had a lousy 2007 — .247 avg., just 21 HR and 84 RBI (of course, Manny had just 20 HRs and 88 RBI), but otherwise, he’s shown 30-homer, 100 RBI power, a .280-.290 average and double-digit steals.

We may miss Brandon Moss, and Craig Hansen may get it together – but without Manny, the Sox have a chance to get their heads back on straight and make a run. With Manny, this could have been a very talented, very unfocused, third-place ballclub.

Manny Is Gone, But The Analysis Stays

Posted by Adam Hart July 31, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Gordon Edes is reporting that a deal has gone down involving Manny Ramirez. He has no details. Updates to come as I hear them.

4:27 SI.com’s John Heyman reports the trade sends Manny to the Dodgers. It seems Jason Bay has been traded to LA, but will stay there for only a short while. He will be on his way to Boston. More details to follow.

4:39 Nick Cafardo is on NESN’s trade deadline show. He reports this as preliminary details:

Pirates Get: Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, Andy Laroche, Bryan Morris

Dodgers Get: Manny Ramirez

Red Sox Get: Jason Bay

4:46 Foxsports.com is now reporting that the Sox will pay off the remainder of Manny’s salary for this season. The options for the next two season have been dropped. To pay that much money and include AAAA prospects shows how much the Sox wanted Manny out of the building. No reliever has come to the Sox. It looks like Theo will turn to Masterson and Michael Bowden to step up big during the run toward the playoffs.

5:31 Time to break down the move. What are the Red Sox getting now that Manny is gone?

Manny: .299 BA, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .398 OBP, .926 OPS

Bay: .282 BA, 22 HR, 64 RBI, .375 OBP, .894 OPS

Manny moves on to an LA team managed by Joe Torre, who has always had good things to say about Pants. We’ll see if that’s the same when these two months are up.

The Sox get a good teammate, a Canadian in Bay. He will cost the Sox considerably less in 2009 than picking up Manny’s option would have been — or signing that ridiculous $100 million deal thinks he can get. Bay’s compensation for next season is $7.5 million. He is known as a good defensive player with a strong arm. He has played 106 games compared to Manny’s 100. They both have 86 strikeouts. Oh, and I have not heard anything regarding injuries popping up when Bay faces a top pitcher.

Overall the Red Sox remove a dark cloud from the clubhouse. Everyone, at one point in their life, has had to deal with a bad roommate, co-worker or teammate. I’m saying it was always bad with Manny. Just that, of late, things got pretty darn uncomfortable in the clubhouse. Removing that weight from the team’s shoulders can only be seen as a positive. It took me a long time to admit that. But I rooted for this Manny. Not this new senile incarnation. Being out of touch is one thing. Mixing that with an extreme sense of entitlement is the worst case scenario. What happened with Manny was the worst case scenario.

We’ll see Friday night how Terry Francona shapes his new lineup. Bay will hopefully benefit from hitting in Fenway Park.

Pirates Operating As Wet Blanket

Posted by Adam Hart July 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Down To The Wire Update, 3:59pm: Ken Rosenthal reports the three-way may be back on. I can’t resist.

**Another Update, 3:56pm: The Rays have not confirmed the aforementioned (even though it shows up underneath this update) Jason Bay trade. So maybe the three-way deal is still alive? Nothing yet. We’ll need to wait a little after 4pm to know for sure.

**Even More of an Update, 3:32pm: The Rays just got stronger, reportedly adding Jason Bay in exchange for two top prospects. That rules out the rumored three-way trade for good. I’ll tell ya. The Rays are looking good this season. Still a half hour left until the deadline. Any deal that is turned in just prior to 4pm may not be announced until later. So stay tuned.

**UPDATE: There is a conflicting report put out there by SI.com’s John Heyman, who says the Marlins were the team dissatisfied with their haul. More importantly, Heyman reports that the Dodgers may swoop in at the last hour and pull off a trade for Manny. The Sox would want promising slugger Matt Kemp, but LA would be more inclined to deal Andre Ethier, who is seen as a level below. The Dodgers are an interesting trading partner, since their thirst for a big trade has increased with the Angels stealing the headlines in out in LA. This point was made by Dale Arnold on WEEI today. Frank McCourt is entrenched in a battle for the spotlight, much like the Yankees and Mets every season. Landing Manny would certainly maintain an excitement level around the Dodgers. As for the other report…

It is truly a shame that this Manny Ramirez thing is threatening the Red Sox season. He has grown increasingly contemptuous. I see his point about management bad mouthing him, but this has gotten way out of hand. Relations between the two sides seem beyond repair. The Sox may need to call on Dr. Bill Morgan for another miracle surgery to save their playoff hopes. But this time he’ll be asked to mend a couple of broken hearts. Sha-la-la-laaaa.

Ken Rosenthal of Foxsports.com reports that the Pittsburgh Pirates are putting up a fuss over the return for Jason Bay in the proposed three-way deal between the Pirates, Marlins and Red Sox. As it stands, the Jolly Rogers don’t believe they are getting a good enough return for an “All-Star caliber left fielder”. Reports are that Pittsburgh gets 24-year-old slugger Jeremy Hermida and three prospects for Bay. GM Neal Huntington and owner Robert Nutting differ on the direction of the team, which is a struggle when trying to complete a complex trade such as this one. But giving up Damaso Marte and Xavier Nady for a bunch of mediocre pieces from the Yankees didn’t seem to be a problem. Rosenthal reports that the Pirates will continue to accept offers from around the league for Bay. I wouldn’t doubt that they can get a better offer elsewhere. But Hermida wouldn’t be a bad player to have under control for his arbitration eligible years, either.

ESPN’s Jayson Stark, on the other hand, reports it is both the Marlins and the Pirates who are messing this thing up. It would make sense that the Sox are angry with both, considering that this deal still could have worked without the Pirates. The trade deadline is quickly approaching, and sometimes deals do come together rather quickly. We shall see.

My question of all questions is this: Does Terry Francona, the seemingly ultimate in-house guy, resent management for leaking stories to the press? All the talk through the media about Manny/by Manny seems to have only made his job tougher. A good question to ask the man. Maybe when all of this is over.

Hours Away from An Adios?

Posted by Mike Giardi July 31, 2008 at 10:45 am

I’m not ashamed to say my head hurts this morning. No caffeine is a lousy way to live life. I suspect that Red Sox GM Theo Epstein is on his third large cup from Dunkin’ Donuts. He may have even thrown in a half-dozen honey-dipped doughnuts (mmmm, doughnuts…). There’s nothing like a double jolt of coffee and pure sugar to make yet another career-making trade.

I gave you my thoughts last night, and despite the emotion involved with this, I haven’t changed my mind. The Sox baseball guys love Jeremy Hermida (as mentioned here early this morning), but the feeling is that he wouldn’t be able to offer enough protection in the middle of that Sox lineup, at least not right now. That’s why Hermida would likely end up in Pittsburgh and Jason Bay in Boston. Under the circumstances, considering Manny has put the Sox’s between the proverbial rock and hard place, getting Bay isn’t all that bad (listen to me try and talk myself into this deal. Its soooooooo sad!). But seriously, Bay is more than 6 years younger than Manny, and has good numbers not just this season, but over his career. At 7.5 million for next season, he’s not all that expensive, and rather than give up the farm for Matt Holliday, the Sox have their left fielder in 2009 (okay, so maybe I didn’t utilize “40 Minutes of Hell,” but at least I had my team trapping and switching and gambling to make this sound and look good).

While we get swept up in all this talk, the team has been d-e-a-d, dead. Lifeless and listless. Hopeless and hapless. After a closed door meeting Saturday, to address the Manny stuff, there’s no question the players want resolution as well. I suspect they wonder if they can convince their sullen leftfielder to play hard and play the right way for the next two to three months. Actually, I’m pretty sure they don’t think they can, which is just another reason that Manny might be filling out change of address forms, or at least paying someone to do that for him.

Source Tells Me…

Posted by Mike Giardi July 31, 2008 at 12:49 am

Just got off the phone on my ride home and I can tell you this, a source within the Red Sox organization says there’s much ground to be covered for this 3-way deal to happen with Pittsburgh and Florida. One of the problems from the Boston standpoint is that they think highly of Marlins outfielder Jeremy Hermida, so much so, they might not willing to turn around and flop Hermida to the Pittsburgh as part of the deal. No Hermida means no Jason Bay from the Pirates. Bay seems a better fit for the Sox lineup being a righty who could give protection for Ortiz or Drew depending on where he’s hitting the lineup..

Oh My Aching Head…

Posted by Mike Giardi July 30, 2008 at 10:52 pm

At 5 o’clock today, I was convinced the Sox wouldn’t trade Manny Ramirez.

At 6, I was even more sure.

Then I got back to the office, and read Manny’s comments to ESPN Deportes (man, that Enrique Rojas is having himself one heck of a week!). Sure sounds to me like a guy who is hell bent on getting out of Boston, and by 4 PM tomorrow (Thursday).

“The Red Sox don’t deserve a player like me. During my years here, I’ve seen how they’ve mistreated other great players when they didn’t want them to try and turn the fans against them.”

“The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy. I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don’t deserve me. I’m not talking about money. Mental peace has no price and I don’t have peace here.”

I agree with Manny on one point. The Sox did run smear campaigns that helped sway public opinion on Garciaparra especially, but on Pedro as well. I always thought it unnecessary, but the egos involved seem to necessitate public posturing. Obviously, in both cases, the Sox made the right decision to trade or walk away from those stars. But this may be the biggest call Theo has had to make.

The GM has earned his money, with two championships in four seasons, but this kind of pressure really puts the heat on the Sox’s baseball boss. Does he think that Manny’s teammates can talk him off the ledge and get him to commit to the team – not himself, but the team- for the next two to three months? Does Theo rely on his relationship with Manny’s agent, Scott Boras, to help foster some kind of peace treaty? Or does Manny’s latest comments indicate there is no chance for coexistence, and that the Sox’s braintrust better take the best offer or life will be tumultuous until this campaign comes to a close? And you thought being a GM would be fun!

To me, I think there’s no way the Sox are a better offensive club without Manny than they are with, but this appears to be “The End.” Truthfully, I’m okay with it. I have no tolerance for non-team guys, and that’s the path Manny has either flirted with or gone down for years. This time, though, he’s gone too far, and sadly, the greatest hitter I’ve ever seen in a Sox uniform should ply his trade somewhere else, even if that may result in a season that began with such promise to finish in disappointment.

Tipping their hand? Foolish speculation on my part

Posted by Ted McEnroe July 30, 2008 at 7:17 pm

Let’s add to the speculation on what the Sox will and won’t do by tomorrow’s trade deadline. For the first time in my life, I think, I actually opened the Red Sox Insider newsletter I have dutifully scanned and deleted. And in it, noticed a line that might suggest things will be relatively quiet on Yawkey Way at the deadline.

The “Insider” writes:

…with the trade deadline looming I’ve received a lot of e-mails and posts on the blog about what you think we should/should not do at the deadline. Most of you seem to think that we should fill any needs (bullpen and otherwise) from within. Our minor league teams are certainly stocked with some serious talent, so this is definitely an intriguing possibility.

I checked the comments, and they weren’t really a) numerous or b) unanimous in the desire for the Sox to stand pat. But the line from “inside the front office” isn’t one that suggests we’re doing to wake up Friday morning with Matt Holliday in Boston.

Delcarmen: Two Mannys are better than one

Posted by Ted McEnroe July 30, 2008 at 6:41 pm

Most Red Sox have generally sidestepped the Ramirez issue in recent days. But Manny Delcarmen says nothing should happen. Check out his interview with Mike Giardi before Wednesday night’s game.

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